Let's have a talk about Nintendo

[_]

Okay, so I've been watching some of moviebob's "Gameoverthinker" videos. They generally make me think a lot about gaming.

Now, we all know Nintendo has the most popular consoles on the market for this generation. They're doing great for it. Hooray for Nintendo!

But let's think for a second here and look at what Nintendo currently has to offer on the Home-Console market. Well we have Brawl, Mario Sunshine, Metroid Prime 3, Mario Kart Wii and Twilight Princess.

What did Nintendo have for the Gamecube era that are nameworthy? Well there was Melee, Mario Sunshine, Wind Waker, Double Dash, Metroid Prime, Metroid Prime 2, Luigi's Mansion, Pikmin and Pikmin 2. Along with a few Mario Party games that didn't suck and a few good Mario sports games.

Now let's dig further back into the Nintendo 64 era. Nintendo had Super Mario 64, Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask, Banjo Kazooie, Banjo Tooie, Mario Kart 64, Super Smash Bros, Donkey Kong 64, Goldeneye, Perfect Dark and hell, just to humor PhantomTaco , Jet Force Gemini. A lot of those games could be considered as "The Greatest Game of all time" because of how easy they are to pick up and play.

Now let's stop and think for a second. As moviebob mentioned;

Mario Galaxy and Twilight Princess. These are two really good games. We knew they were good games before we had even played them. Why? Because we played similar games on our Nintendo 64s.

During the GameCube era, Nintendo was experimenting a lot. Super Mario 64 turned into a fun wacky adventure where Mario obtained a giant water gun that was freaking deadly. Wind Waker made Link transition from roaming across a field stabbing Skulltulas into an adventure game where Link travels across the ocean.

With the current generation, Nintendo has transitioned back into what they had before. I'm not saying this is bad, Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are REALLY good games. I mean thinks about it, Twilight Princess is like Ocarina of Time expanded with a slight epic twist. Mario Galaxy is somewhat of an exception but still stays with a concept that Mario 64 had.

Now let's think, what could Nintendo do to brighten up their gaming market of today?

Well first off, they could give their most abused franchises some attention. I'm talking about Mother and Kid Icarus. Mother is a game that came out on the Famicom system in Japan. It's a turn based RPG that is quite similar to Pokemon. The main difference is that you don't catch monsters.

Let's not get into the history of the mother series though. It's not very complicated like the biggest video game disaster in history. *cough*Sonic*cough*

Now Kid Icarus only got two games. Both were really fun. The original Kid Icarus was released on the NES. On the day it was released, Nintendo also released Metroid. Even now, people call Metroid and Kid Icarus "sibling" games. Kid Icarus's gameplay style is a mix between Mario, Metroid and Zelda. It's brilliant! The first two games didn't do as well as the rest of Nintendo's games. So they decided to scrap the franchise after the sequel which was released on the Game Boy.

When Pit came to Brawl, I had no idea who he is until I researched him. I found out he comes from Kid Icarus. I thought it was quite odd that Nintendo added a character from a dead franchise into Brawl. Maybe the franchise isn't dead. Let's hope for a Kid Icarus on the DS or Wii!

Now let's think about the potential Nintendo has with their franchises. Mario and Zelda can still feel fresh if they try. How about a Zelda game that takes place just before the flood? How about another Mario game where Wario is the main villain? Mario Land 2 was great fun wasn't it?

Speaking of abused Nintendo franchises. Think about StarFox. What could Nintendo do with Starfox? They could make a game that has the concept of Starfox 64/Lylatwars but you can play as any character you want instead of letting fox get all the action. It's like at the end, fox defeats andross and takes all the credits. What the hell? Didn't Falco help? Didn't Peppy help? Didn't Sli- never mind.

Pokemon, what is wrong with Pokemon now? Well the fighting system is great! Nintendo got it right. But the concept is dry. A lot of people have said this. Pokemon Colosseum was a great game. It felt fresh to the Pokemon series. The whole "get your Pokemon, battle rival, foil an evil teams plans, collect 8 badges, defeat the elite four" concept is old now. I'm hoping the fourth generation is the last time they'll do this. I hope Nintendo starts actually starts putting stories into Pokemon games but you'll still be able to catch Pokemon like before. I mean, the concept of collection badges and defeating team rocket worked for Pokemon Red and Gold but got boring.

I'm not saying that the current Pokemon games are bad otherwise I wouldn't be playing Pokemon Pearl still. I'm just saying the concept is dry.

Nintendo is a great company with so many great franchises but it's such a shame that you have to dig through all the crap to find decent titles. It's no secret that Nintendo hasn't had very good third party support since the SNES. But with the Wii, EVERYONE wants to make a game for it just to make a quick buck. This is what I call shovelware. Nintendo, if by VERY slim chance you're reading - PLEASE stop allowing these awful games into the market. It breaks my heart to see the "Nintendo Seal of Quality" on games that involves Brats and looking after monkeys.

I'm done ranting. I'm not saying Nintendo is bad. But they have so many flaws that they need to fix up. 2008 was a pretty bad year for the Wii. We got Brawl yeah but what else? I can't name anything. So here's hoping for a good year for the Wii and DS in 2009!

Also, before you guys start ranting about the "Casual Gamer" scene, please take a look at moviebob's thought on this; www.youtube.com/watch?v=DhHu8D2oPic

[Jilly Shears]

Nintendo's turned into power-hungry fouls this generation. Not releasing Fatal Frame 4 outside of Japan (which has been out for nearly a year in Japan, mind you), treating their hardcore audience like poo (proportionally, they've been releasing stuff like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid like once every 60 shovelware games are released), not to mention a few other things.

They need to get their act together and get back to the way they were pre-2007. :/

EDIT: Ooo; OCD TIEM! Both Mother 1 and 2 were made by the same people who created Pokemon. Just saying, since that's why they're so similar in gameplay.

[_]

Apr 26, 2009 21:41:03 GMT -6 Jilly Shears said:

Nintendo's turned into power-hungry fouls this generation. Not releasing Fatal Frame 4 outside of Japan (which has been out for nearly a year in Japan, mind you), treating their hardcore audience like poo (proportionally, they've been releasing stuff like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid like once every 60 shovelware games are released), not to mention a few other flaws.

Just for a second, I want you to think of yourself as a person that just got a SNES for the first time. It's 1993 and your first two games are Super Mario World - a very casual friendly game that's pretty much easy to pick up and play, and Super Metroid - a game where you're a bounty hunter exploring a vast planet. Again you've never played a game before. So you look at the two games and decide to play Super Metroid because it has a cooler case. So the beginning it fairly linear but as soon as you land on Zebes you wonder what the hell you're supposed to do. And by the time you get the Morph Ball Bomb powerup, you give up and play Super Mario World instead.

You find yourself absorbed because of the ease of gameplay.

Now think of a similar situation in modern times. You just got a Wii with two games. Wii Music and Super Smash Bros Brawl. You play Brawl first. This has happened with real people actually. You play Brawl but give up because you have no idea of how you're controlling it and you can't get used to it because you've had no experience with fighting, platforming or gaming in general. You decide to play Wii Music with your family. You find yourself engaged much more because it's so easy to just pick up and play. There's no challenge and you find it fun to play music with your grandmother without having any musical knowledge.

Nintendo isn't trying to isolate the hardcore gaming audience. They're just trying to not over-feed them. There's another audience out there that might want to give gaming a try.

[JohnFreeman]

I'm not too pleased with Nintendo's performance this generation with the Wii. For a system with so much potential, Nintendo seems to be doing nothing with it other than rehash a few popular series with new control schemes. My main gripe is the lack of a new IP from Nintendo this generation. Well, there's the "Wii ____" and Cooking Mama, but those shouldn't count.

Nintendo's handheld market this generation, on the other hand, is incredible. I have more fun with the DS than any other game system (including consoles). The funny thing is, most of Nintendo's "flagship series" offerings on the DS have been pretty lame. New Super Mario Bros. was one of the worst platformers in the series, Phantom Hourglass was hardly impressive compared to the other handheld Zeldas, and Metroid Prime: Hunters... well, I prefer 2-D Metroid, thanks.

The reason I'm so impressed with the DS is its incredible hardware and enormous library of excellent gems, especially third-party offerings. The touch-screen and dual screens allow for some very creative and fun games (The World Ends With You is a perfect example). As for the library-- I'm very impressed. It just might rival even the SNES in that aspect. I have nearly 80 DS games, and I still don't have even 3/4 of the games worth playing on the DS. Games from companies like Atlus, Capcom, Konami, and Square-Enix have been top-notch. I'm very pleased with the handheld market. ^_^

[Jilly Shears]

Apr 26, 2009 21:50:38 GMT -6 _ said:

Apr 26, 2009 21:41:03 GMT -6 Jilly Shears said:

Nintendo's turned into power-hungry fouls this generation. Not releasing Fatal Frame 4 outside of Japan (which has been out for nearly a year in Japan, mind you), treating their hardcore audience like poo (proportionally, they've been releasing stuff like Mario, Zelda, and Metroid like once every 60 shovelware games are released), not to mention a few other flaws.

Just for a second, I want you to think of yourself as a person that just got a SNES for the first time. It's 1993 and your first two games are Super Mario World - a very casual friendly game that's pretty much easy to pick up and play, and Super Metroid - a game where you're a bounty hunter exploring a vast planet. Again you've never played a game before. So you look at the two games and decide to play Super Metroid because it has a cooler case. So the beginning it fairly linear but as soon as you land on Zebes you wonder what the hell you're supposed to do. And by the time you get the Morph Ball Bomb powerup, you give up and play Super Mario World instead.

You find yourself absorbed because of the ease of gameplay.

Now think of a similar situation in modern times. You just got a Wii with two games. Wii Music and Super Smash Bros Brawl. You play Brawl first. This has happened with real people actually. You play Brawl but give up because you have no idea of how you're controlling it and you can't get used to it because you've had no experience with fighting, platforming or gaming in general. You decide to play Wii Music with your family. You find yourself engaged much more because it's so easy to just pick up and play. There's no challenge and you find it fun to play music with your grandmother without having any musical knowledge.

Nintendo isn't trying to isolate the hardcore gaming audience. They're just trying to not over-feed them. There's another audience out there that might want to give gaming a try.

But it's not the same thing.

Super Metroid and Super Mario World appeal to gamers in general and, while one is much more easy to just pick up and play, they both are similar in platforming and overall quality - just Metroid's more about exploration and takes some time to understand the controls.

Wii Music and SSBB are entirely different when it comes to gameplay and target groups; WM is a music-simulator for anyone to pick up, and SSBB is a fighter for fans of the Nintendo universe; they're nearly at opposite ends of the spectrum, and I personally think one of them was more worked on than the other.

I'm all for games being easy to just walk over and learn the controls in 2 minutes and being accessible for everyone, but it's quality that concerns me. :/

[_]

Apr 26, 2009 22:00:39 GMT -6 JohnFreeman said:

I'm not too pleased with Nintendo's performance this generation with the Wii. For a system with so much potential, Nintendo seems to be doing nothing with it other than rehash a few popular series with new control schemes. My main gripe is the lack of a new IP from Nintendo this generation. Well, there's the "Wii ____" and Cooking Mama, but those shouldn't count.

Nintendo's handheld market this generation, on the other hand, is incredible. I have more fun with the DS than any other game system (including consoles). The funny thing is, most of Nintendo's "flagship series" offerings on the DS have been pretty lame. New Super Mario Bros. was one of the worst platformers in the series, Phantom Hourglass was hardly impressive compared to the other handheld Zeldas, and Metroid Prime: Hunters... well, I prefer 2-D Metroid, thanks.

The reason I'm so impressed with the DS is its incredible hardware and enormous library of excellent gems, especially third-party offerings. The touch-screen and dual screens allow for some very creative and fun games (The World Ends With You is a perfect example). As for the library-- I'm very impressed. It just might rival even the SNES in that aspect. I have nearly 80 DS games, and I still don't have even 3/4 of the games worth playing on the DS. Games from companies like Atlus, Capcom, Konami, and Square-Enix have been top-notch. I'm very pleased with the handheld market. ^_^

The DS library is fantastic. It's like a handheld PS1. Only better because it has Nintendo characters. The DS has just about everything the PS1. Add a lot of game developers that give a damn.

[_]

Apr 26, 2009 22:07:05 GMT -6 Jilly Shears said:

Apr 26, 2009 21:50:38 GMT -6 _ said:

Just for a second, I want you to think of yourself as a person that just got a SNES for the first time. It's 1993 and your first two games are Super Mario World - a very casual friendly game that's pretty much easy to pick up and play, and Super Metroid - a game where you're a bounty hunter exploring a vast planet. Again you've never played a game before. So you look at the two games and decide to play Super Metroid because it has a cooler case. So the beginning it fairly linear but as soon as you land on Zebes you wonder what the hell you're supposed to do. And by the time you get the Morph Ball Bomb powerup, you give up and play Super Mario World instead.

You find yourself absorbed because of the ease of gameplay.

Now think of a similar situation in modern times. You just got a Wii with two games. Wii Music and Super Smash Bros Brawl. You play Brawl first. This has happened with real people actually. You play Brawl but give up because you have no idea of how you're controlling it and you can't get used to it because you've had no experience with fighting, platforming or gaming in general. You decide to play Wii Music with your family. You find yourself engaged much more because it's so easy to just pick up and play. There's no challenge and you find it fun to play music with your grandmother without having any musical knowledge.

Nintendo isn't trying to isolate the hardcore gaming audience. They're just trying to not over-feed them. There's another audience out there that might want to give gaming a try.

But it's not the same thing.

Super Metroid and Super Mario World appeal to gamers in general and, while one is much more easy to just pick up and play, they both are similar in platforming and overall quality - just Metroid's more about exploration and takes some time to understand the controls.

Wii Music and SSBB are entirely different when it comes to gameplay and target groups; WM is a music-simulator for anyone to pick up, and SSBB is a fighter for fans of the Nintendo universe; they're nearly at opposite ends of the spectrum, and I personally think one of them was more worked on than the other.

I'm all for games being easy to just walk over and learn the controls in 2 minutes and being accessible for everyone, but it's quality that concerns me. :/

The quality hasn't been dropping in major Nintendo games. But the quantity of major Nintendo games has. Now Wii Music isn't a very good game and can not compare to Brawl in any way, I don't even know why Nintendo made it. But Nintendo is still trying to appeal to new gamers. Wouldn't it be great to hear your teacher talking about how Ganondorf is a badass? Blah! I digress.

I have faith in Nintendo for E3 2009. It shouldn't be hard to top 2008 or 2007. It might be hard to top 2006 because that was actually interesting. All Nintendo has to do is look back at 2008 and think "Yyyyyyyyyyyyyeah we're going to do it in an entirely opposite approach because let's face it, only hardcore gamers watch E3",

[Rusty]

Gah, a StarFox game would be so cool for the Wii. I really hope they do it, and do it right. They can even keep the foot-mission elements, but be sure to keep it balanced, and not do everything on foot. I also like the playing with different characters idea. Though I wasn't a huge fan of Command overall, the thing that made it cool was the idea of being able to play with more than just Fox.

As for Pokemon XD, I agree, they really should do something like that again. I mean, it was different compared to the rest of the Pokemon series, and it was a nice change.

[lih]

The main thing I don't like about Nintendo this generation is the lack of difficulty in games. Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy are amazing games, but compared to SM64 and OoT, they're faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar easier. I also pretty much agree with what Levus said.

Also wait until E3 everyone.

Predicting Zelda Wii or at least more Spirit Tracks

maybe SMG2/NSMB2 or Pikmin 3

[_]

Apr 27, 2009 3:18:45 GMT -6 lih said:

The main thing I don't like about Nintendo this generation is the lack of difficulty in games. Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy are amazing games, but compared to SM64 and OoT, they're faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar easier. I also pretty much agree with what Levus said.

Of-course they're easy! We've been playing each installment in the series for ages. I personally don't think Ocarina of Time is very hard, especially when I went back and re-played it. Twilight Princess is equal in difficulty IMO. The same goes for Mario Galaxy/Mario 64. I can complete Mario 64 without dying once because it's so easy.

[buckyboy2009]

Of-course they're easy! We've been playing each installment in the series for ages. I personally don't think Ocarina of Time is very hard, especially when I went back and re-played it. Twilight Princess is equal in difficulty IMO. The same goes for Mario Galaxy/Mario 64. I can complete Mario 64 without dying once because it's so easy.

Agreed. Go back and play an old game; you'll crush it compared to how you did once before.

As for Nintendo, this generation they wanted to expand and grab the new gamer market, making most games easy and simple. While I own a Wii, and love the game (SMG) I own, I find that the motion sensor could be seen as tacky at some moments, yet a great idea.

As for game ideas, Mario has only had one true platformer on each console, so maybe it could be a sign that the Wii's life is almost over (the GameCube lasted from 2001-2007, but SMS was released in 2002, so I may be wrong.) For Metroid, I loved the Prime series and am sad that the trilogy (of five games ) is done, but that doesn't mean Metroid FPAs(First Person Adventure) couldn't still be made. For StarFox, I've only played it once (because I considered myself sheltered from video games at a young age), but I loved it and would love to see one on the Wii. In Zelda news, a new one would be teh sweetness, but c'mon! Make Link left-handed again! ;D As for the rest, there needs to be a new franchise created in the era (face it, the last large and successful franchise Nintendo has created was Pokemon...almost 15 years ago...) Wii (insert generic theme) is a great start, but it's too simple and empty; not worth the money IMO.

[Rusty]

Apr 27, 2009 8:43:17 GMT -6 buckyboy2009 said:

Agreed. Go back and play an old game; you'll crush it compared to how you did once before.

True that. XD I remember playing Paper Mario as a kid, I couldn't get past Huff N' Puff, but when I played a couple months ago, I beat him easily (along with Crystal King and Bowser).

[Savvn]

I think they could of done much better with the Wii. A console with such potential and all we are geting is tons and tons of shovelware. On the Wii there are only about 11 games off the top of my head that interest me, things like super mario galaxy, mario kart, super smash bros. brawl, sonic and the secret rings (and black knight) super paper mario and a few others. The rest is tons and tons of crappy party games that no-one cares about.

[Jilly Shears]

Apr 27, 2009 8:59:20 GMT -6 Rusty said:

Apr 27, 2009 8:43:17 GMT -6 buckyboy2009 said:

Agreed. Go back and play an old game; you'll crush it compared to how you did once before.

True that. XD I remember playing Paper Mario as a kid, I couldn't get past Huff N' Puff, but when I played a couple months ago, I beat him easily (along with Crystal King and Bowser).

God...all three of were *female dogs* to beat. I remember having trouble with Laya Piranha as well, until I discovered using Tidal Wave with Sushi.

Anyway...I know the quality of IP Nintendo games haven't gone down...for those that were dating back before the Wii era. It's stuff like "Wii *insert random noun*" or other shovelware stuff like Cooking Mama. :/

[KM]

I know, people have reduced interest in Wii games because they get so childish. It's not so much a BAD thing, it's just that they overdo it. The Wii has so much potential, but nothing's being used!

As for DS, it's awesome. Lots of cool games. It's too bad I lost mine. Touch screen rulez!!! ^^

[hotrods4ben]

Apr 26, 2009 21:31:05 GMT -6 _ said:

When Pit came to Brawl, I had no idea who he is until I researched him. I found out he comes from Kid Icarus. I thought it was quite odd that Nintendo added a character from a dead franchise into Brawl.

This is pretty funny:
When I first saw the famous Brawl trailer from way back at E306, I saw Pit and thought he looked really familiar even though, at the time, I had never even heard of Kid Icarus. Then I found out that I recognized him from a trophy in Melee
this is the one:


THEN I found out that he was planned to be in SSB64!!!!

[lih]

Apr 27, 2009 8:12:10 GMT -6 _ said:

Apr 27, 2009 3:18:45 GMT -6 lih said:

The main thing I don't like about Nintendo this generation is the lack of difficulty in games. Twilight Princess and Super Mario Galaxy are amazing games, but compared to SM64 and OoT, they're faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar easier. I also pretty much agree with what Levus said.

Of-course they're easy! We've been playing each installment in the series for ages. I personally don't think Ocarina of Time is very hard, especially when I went back and re-played it. Twilight Princess is equal in difficulty IMO. The same goes for Mario Galaxy/Mario 64. I can complete Mario 64 without dying once because it's so easy.

I must disagree. Twilight Princess was the first Zelda I properly completed. I found it fairly easy. Ocarina of Time on the other hand, was much more challenging. I still haven't got a few stars in Super Mario 64 (though that's due to how badly Mario controls in the Wii version with the Classic Controller) but I could probably beat SMG without dying if I tried.