bally
Yoshi
Sitting on a swing with my Katamari ♥
Posts: 1,305
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Post by bally on Apr 27, 2009 18:24:57 GMT -6
Oh boy. More video game vs MPC analogies. Those just aren't cutting it for me, because as I've said before, video games are designed by developers for the enjoyment of a customer, and one who puts time into a video game does not expect to publish their enjoyment to the world in nearly close a way that MPCers do. A MPCer makes a song for the potential enjoyment of everyone (yes, including oneself). Also, your answer tells me why you enjoy making music in general, and not why you prefer MPC over superior programs. My experience in other programs extends as far as Finale 2003, a Notation Composer Demo, and an FL Studios Demo. From all I've done, I'd say Mario Paint Composer is tops, meaning there are no superior programs from what I've tried...at least free ones. (Finale 2003 was only available from a school computer) I'm sure if I gave other music composing software a try, I'd end up using them as much as I use MPC. I'm just likely to keep to what I initially start with if it's a good program to use. Finale was first, but the program was too strict to musical detail and I didn't enjoy making songs from it. Nor did I even enjoy the end product. Mario Paint was easy to get used to, fun to work with, and the song as whole once you've completed one sounds pretty good. If I can change that "pretty good" to "absolutely spectacular" with the little addition of some dickspeed + soundset magic, why wouldn't I? If I feel it's worth the little bit of extra time to make it sound flawless, why wouldn't I? I'm not trying to put down original soundset use, nor do I intend to offend anyone in any way. The success that comes out of original soundsets is just as spectacular to me as any dickspeed + soundset stuff that someone can come up with. (Banjo Kazooie Final Battles, anyone?) I just enjoy what MPC is capable of doing, and believe it or not, it was your Runescape: Castle Wars video that inspired me to look up soundsets. So thank you for that and a job well done, might I add. ;D
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Cat
Plane
Zoroark fanatic
Posts: 973
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Post by Cat on Apr 27, 2009 18:46:17 GMT -6
You make a VERY good point, axelrod. I, for one, love the limitations of the program. The only reason I ever went for SoundFonts (using and creating) was to have a little bit of fun with it. Now, as for dickspeed, I also wanted to give that a try. I would vote for choosing either dickspeed or SoundFont, but not both, because as you said, it's not Mario Paint anymore. This also explains why I'm not in contests: because I really don't care about having a better song than someone else.
I've also recently decided to try something where you can't physically remove any limitations: NES remixing. In it, you only get five channels: two square, one triangle, one noise, and one PCM. The square can only have four different duties, but you can also mess around with volume and pitch bending. The triangle only can be pitchbent. As for the noise, volume can be applied to imitate drums, along with tone. The PCM is the best part, because you only get 4 KB per audio clip, with a maximum of 16 KB. The entire song can't exceed 40 KB.
Works well for me!
This also means I'll be off of Mario Paint for a little while.
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Post by Colin Comard (Delay) on Apr 27, 2009 21:17:21 GMT -6
Part of our desire to use Dickspeed and soundfonts is our intent on matching the OST using this simple kind of program. That in itself is a form of limitation, since the note range is restricted to B flat and C sharp. But if you're trying to make it sound as close to the OST as possible, why shouldn't the person just listen to the OST? because MPC looks better? It is my opinion that Mario Paint should be experiencing more remixes and original compositions rather than exact replicas of VG and RL music, because like I said, the person can just go listen to the original version. Now, sometimes Mario Paint SOUNDS better than the original (S.S. Anubis, in my opinion) but a lot of times MPC doesn't really sound any different, or it's too close to notice any real differences. That's why I do more FL Studio. It's a lot simpler to make a song there because there's a list of sounds on the side, so you don't have to go into the soundfont, open up the sample, loop it, edit it on the instruments, tune it, make a present, and repeat nineteen times. The samples are right there. (Plus FL Studio has a scales and chords dictionary so if I can't think of something I'll pick a scale and improvise). It is also easier to make rhythm, because there's tempo tap, and you don't have to worry about counting spacing because you know what's a quarter note and what's a sixteenth. And, it's a lot faster fix. And, you don't have to write repeating parts over and over. And, There's not a lot of scrolling. And, you don't have to worry about that note limit. It's just more fun and easy. I think after I release Going the Distance (Rocky Balboa FTW), I'll start doing more remixes and original compositions, or else switch *almost* entirely to FL Studio. There aren't really limits anymore in MPC. Sure, you have ONLY 19 instruments, but Going the Distance is the only one I've ever done that has used every single one (and make me need 2 more). And TBH, I didn't actually need to use them all, but it was easier to. How many songs are going to use so many instruments that you don't have enough room for any more octave highers or lowers? My bet is not many. I hope to see more Remixes and/or Original Compositions in the future rather than 100% accurate versions of the OST. ...
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Post by Rusty on Apr 27, 2009 21:24:23 GMT -6
I hope to see more Remixes and/or Original Compositions in the future rather than 100% accurate versions of the OST. That's one thing I can honestly say I regret. I started off making an effort to make an original song for every recreation or an OST. While 4 out of my 13 videos are original or remixed, that's not near the ratio I had wanted.
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Post by lih on Apr 30, 2009 1:16:36 GMT -6
Using dickspeed is still working within MPC's limits. It allows you to bypass some of the limitations of using lower tempos, but MPC's five instrument limit per note is still there.The range of instruments available in custom soundfonts is still relatively limited compared to the 127 MIDI instruments. You are also limited to 19 instruments, which was actually a problem in my Wind Waker Credits.
so basically I love pushing MPC to its limits (which very much exist)
but making low tempo original soundfont songs is just as much fun
I just lack inspiration for them most of the time :/
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Post by Gallahaut on May 1, 2009 2:50:12 GMT -6
Okay, here's my reason. I don't mean to offend anyone; I'm just trying to be honest (I'm not even entirely sure myself what my reasons are for using MPC, so I'll try...)
Well, first of all, in addition to being an MPC user, I am also a Sibelius 5 user. For those of you who don't know, it's a $600 program (price may have gone down by now, but that's irrelevant) with quite an extensive selection of instrument and very good notational functioning and quality.
My main goal with these music writing programs was to be able to recreate songs I liked authentically, and as time went by and I got better, I found that I was still unable to recreate pieces to my liking because the MIDI quality was absolutely horrible and nothing like the real music.
When I stumbled upon Mario Paint Composer (during the Sting Chameleon contest) it had already had soundfonts and dickspeed and all that fun stuff, so I never really knew MPC for what it originally was. When I heard about this opportunity of custom sounfonts I was immediately interested in hopes to improve the sound quality of my transcriptions. As for dickspeed, to me, that seemed like a necessity in order to be accurate with my transcriptions.
As of today, I still favor the sounds of MPC over Sibelius because I have more options with instruments and much better sound quality. (If I needed a specific instrument, I could just custom make my own soundfont to meet my needs). The only problem is that I am quite efficient in Sibelius, so MPC pieces take me a great deal of time longer than in Sibelius.
Now I really don't want to offend anyone in saying this but overall... I think I use MPC because there's nothing better to use (that doesn't cost a fortune), so I think if I found a convenient program with a sound quality better than MPC, I would start using that instead; I just haven't found that program yet.
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Post by tombobblender on Sept 22, 2011 21:55:04 GMT -6
I stick to the original Mario Paint for my arrangements for a few reasons: 1.) I grew up with it, and have serious attachment issues to it. 2.) I know how to manipulate the sequencer to my liking (pitch cancellations, timbre combinations, etc.). 3.) Many of my arrangements existed on YouTube before MPC was even heard of (I think June 2008?) 4.) The visual of Mario jumping on the notes being played 5.) Mario Paint videos made on the original Mario Paint is what I'm known for on YouTube. If all MPC ever did was add sharps/flats, I MAY have been inclined to use it. Too many additional features (individual note velocity, 'excessive' tempo speeds blurring any hope of reading the music or knowing what's going on, 5-note polyphony) distracted my attention to it, where I knew I could easily get better results with a real MIDI sequencer using a Mario Paint soundfont and, most likely, getting more work done in about half the time (or less). One of my biggest pet peeves about MPC (and this is reeeeally showing my passion for Mario Paint) is the neglect of note cancellations. To put it simply, it doesn't "sound" like Mario Paint to me. Perhaps I am the only one who even cares about something like this but, remember how old I am and how long I've been listening to music in Mario Paint . Also, MPC still has severe range limitations, whereas in a MIDI sequencer, you have 88+ note ranges per instrument (though I wouldn't suggest the baby on pitch C1 lol). I have a very extensive background with music. I make that quite clear on my YouTube page. So why do I choose to use such a limited program to create music? 1.) It's visually appealing, as axelrod had said, to ANYONE who watches it. They may not know what a C, D, or F is, but they know that the fireflower from Super Mario World is playing the trumpet sound by following the contour of the phrase. Futhermore, Mario is running along the score, jumping on the notes as they are played. They even sink a little in the staff, almost like a whack-a-mole game. 2.) If you look back to the earliest comments on my videos (before trolls became standard commentators on YouTube videos), many remark how they have 'forgotten about this game' and remember 'all the hours they spent playing with the music editor', etc. My work in this very specific game was appealing to this audience, and I enjoyed sharing my passion of what I loved with everyone. 3.) Because Mario Paint is darn fun to use and listen to!! I like being challenged, and I like having control. Mario Paint offers both of these to me. I like having to decide if I want to drop the mushroom in order for the Heart to be heard in combination with the melody and harmony, or to sacrifice the harmony for a beat to allow a Boat to snar it up in order to keep the rhythm somewhat intact. They are musical decisions, and every single one of my arrangements demonstrates that 'struggle'. It is a limited environment I feel very comfortable working in, and many are impressed with the outcomes. The only real drawback (for me) is the quantity of possible songs to create, due to the lack of range and accidentals, but I am fine with that. I always find plenty of songs to do if I look hard enough. One of my 'favorite complaints' about music done in Mario Paint is how it's 'ruined' by cats and dogs. lol. You need to celebrate these sounds in Mario Paint scores! It's quite difficult to make any song sound 'serious' in Mario Paint, mainly because of the musical samples supplied and that the program was (probably) not written to accommodate that musical trait. When I think of Mario Paint scores, three words come to mind: goofy, silly, and FUN. A Mario Paint song without a few cats and dogs thrown into the mix just sounds like 'another song'. My take on the otherwise-serious-sounding "Cosmo Canyon" left comments such as "I can't stop laughing at this!", which was exactly what I was going for. axelrod, I sincerely thank you for creating this post. I hope I have effectively communicated my response, and addressed any concerns you wished to receive. So, just remember guys: "It's not you. It's me" ;o)
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TheBatdorTrogman
Swan
He's smiling because the post immediately to the right is awesome.
Posts: 48
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Post by TheBatdorTrogman on Nov 15, 2011 14:13:33 GMT -6
Well, I'm kind of with axelrod here. Personally, I don't like using soundfonts other than the original because I feel they detract from the challenge of Mario Paint. I've actually attempted dickspeed before, and not only did I like the result, I found a new appreciation for MPCers who use it. I'm not talking speeds of 5000+, or the ones where you can't even see the icons; those just give me a headache. My upper limit is about 2000. I don't even know if that counts, but since you can use it to make up to ten instead of five sounds at once, it probably does.
I have an exception to my "no soundfonts" rule, though: original compositions. I think, especially if you made the soundfont yourself, using Mario Paint Composer is a great way to show off all the layers of your work. I guess that's the reason for MPC. You get to see every note for yourself.
Again, though, that's the problem with taking dickspeed too far. You blink, you miss a screen or three. The whole point is making the composition pleasing to hear AND to look at.
Probably the best argument for using dickspeed and soundfonts is original compositions. I can think of one stunning example:
Unfortunately, both soundfonts and dickspeed tend to be abused simply because they negate MPC's limitations. It no longer becomes impressive, or creative. And that's the key: you have to maintain the creative integrity somehow.
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Post by shinyjiggly on Nov 30, 2011 2:28:19 GMT -6
Just to preface, yes I had known about the history of Mario Paint (used to play with it when I was little, dabbled in Mario Sequencer a bit as well).
When I was starting out with using MPC, I didn't have a program that could help me write music (not that I can read it very well...). This was mostly due to the fact that I didn't want to fork out cash for a midi program. I started using soundfonts very early in my MPCing "career" just due to them sounding cool. I dabbled in as many soundfonts as I could find. MPC definitely has a lot of bang for it's buck (being free and all that) and it satisfied my random compositional tendencies. It was a hobby and a pastime for me, mostly. I never really had a disposition for SUPER ACCURACY in the cover-tune's respect or the program's root's respect. I simply tried my best to make things sound interesting for the listener.
But mostly, I think one of the main reasons why many of us are still here using this program is because of the "Popularity Factor". For example, would the most popular MPC videos on Youtube have gotten popular if they were just midis with a stationary background picture? Something about the interface of the program seems to draw people in more than an equally well-composed piece made in another program. It's like watching someone beat up a high-tier character with a character that seems to be low-tier in a fighting game. Rooting for the underdog tends to happen even when they surpass expectations and prescribed limitations for some reason.
Basically, I like things with bright colors, even if I'm making it sound completely different than it should. This was one of the reasons why I loved (and still love) Wind Waker, despite the harsh criticism that it has received from some Zelda fans (not that my opinion on a Zelda game matter when it comes to modding a music program to expand its potential). If I cared deeply about the historical accuracy of my work compared to the game that it was based upon, I would still be using Mario Sequencer. Nowadays I really don't MPC as much as I used to (like that was ever very much in the first place...) because I have access to other programs which satisfy my needs for an outlet that doesn't cost money to use that also have different options to offer. Also, I am no longer searching for online popularity because really, I have all the online friends that I could ever need right here with you guys. (Skype voice chats FTW!) So here I am now, stuck in a limbo, listening to a group of similar-aged fellows argue the validity of their divergence from the canon of the SNES game from which their program of choice was inspired. Hopefully their reasons are deeper than my "I like bright colors" argument.
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Post by gudtavosky on Nov 30, 2011 7:35:35 GMT -6
I understand your point, axelrod. But we dont use MPC to make music. We use it to have fun. No matter how people change the way of using it. btw, i'm a full original soundfont user. It makes MPC more "mario paint" as you said
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Post by Herty on Jan 17, 2012 11:05:39 GMT -6
Too busy to give an extended argument, but simply: MPC to me is a tool for making music. It is simple and fun to use. My view is that it shouldn't matter how you use it, so long as you get the fun and whatever else you want out of it. I've managed to get a lot of help from MPC for rapidly composing something for music homework, which I can the write out as sheet music. I prefer it over other programs because they are more serious and complicated to make use of. SoundFonts? Dickspeed? Sure, I use 'em. I also do Original SoundFont stuff too. But hey, as said, it's for fun. If you get too much crap from other people to use OSF, then you feel pressured and that makes you sad. D: I'd hope most people would willingly appreciate the effort put into a Soundfonted dickspeed composition as much as a low tempo OSF one. Finally, the community! I have never experienced a musical community as strong as this one. I doubt that needs expanding at all. I love you guys. (Espicially you Tom <3)
Besides, I stand by a an old quote from Gallahaut: It's so fun to put a cat and a dog on a stave and call it music! ^_^
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